And do you mind if I mention this?

This morning I want to talk to you very specifically on the subject of technique.

Male voice: No.

You notice we're covering in the morning, to some degree, the rough case and in the afternoon we re covering the easy case. And that is no reason why you should concentrate all of your auditing talent upon the tough case.

In Dianetics we knew the velocity of the grief charge and I said even now you can run them out. It doesn't matter, but we knew the velocity of this grief charge. Okay.

Tough cases are expendable. I mean, the day I found out - the day I found out this thing about the "poor thetan" - the poor thetan. He - this rough, rough, rough, rough case. He couldn't get out - I did this to about five cases, by the way. He couldn't get out. He couldn't move out. He couldn't run concepts and nothing had any reality to him. And he was really - he was really having a rough time.

In Theta Clearing we are doing a different proposition. It is not grammatical to say - say this, but most people - the second sentence here is not grammatical. The first sentence is - it's not, "What are you afraid of?" Most people say that, "What are you afraid of?" They go around looking at each other and say, "What are you afraid of? What are you afraid of?"

And then I discovered that if you could reduce the morale - the physical morale of the body sufficiently, they'd leave. They had no slightest difficulty in doing so. They were not stuck to the body. They'd kind of get stuck a little bit once in a while when they hit MEST too hard because - that was because they were too close up to it. They had no difficulty. They moved right out - complete, though, with everything they had.

This is like that "fighting nothing" deal, see, "What are you afraid of?" That will never get anyplace. That is a complete dead end because there is no what to be afraid of.

It was the same - but it was the same sort of operation that you and I would - well, you and I would not like to move out of a house that we'd been living in for a long time and so forth with all of our treasured possessions and everything. And somebody suddenly comes along and kicks - kicks us out. We wouldn't like that.

It's "Where are you afraid of?" "Where are you afraid of?" And although that isn't grammatical, Scientologically speaking, you'd certainly better alter your grammar, because the grammar in this case is wrong. It's "Where are you afraid of?"

Well, this was about the same frame of mind, about the same reluctance. He was not stuck to the body - this first one I ran. And the succeeding four that I made this test on were not stuck. They moved right out. They weren't stuck.

I think we just saw a practical example of this, didn't we?

The thetan has approximated the exact shape of the body as near as possible. And outside of the energy he is generating, that energy which he is packing around is not necessarily impinged upon this universe. Now, think of that carefully.

We started out with a person in a situation. And all this as soon as we'd gotten to the vicinity of the locale, which was brought up as the happening locale, the locale was awfully occluded. And we worked mainly upon geographical locale and so forth. And I catered to the case a little bit and audited longer than I should, merely because I got interested. Auditors just never really should be interested, but I happened to be interested. And I'm generally very fascinated with a lot of the data that comes up, so I sometimes wander around in my auditing.

Now let's take this magazine I'm holding in my hand here and we see that when I reach over and touch this wall here with the magazine, the magazine is impinged upon the wall. The magazine is impinged upon this universe. Now, you understand that? Okay. It's impingement.

But in this particular case, the solution of the thing was just to blow up Massachusetts and get Massachusetts blowing them up and admire Massachusetts and get it blown up. Not go in for any specific thing at all. But I thought I'd - we'd unearth a little more data concerning this and get a little more alive.

Okay. This magazine is impinged upon the wall here. And therefore we would be able to run the magazine through the wall very easily if - of course, we had to have had sufficient velocity and so forth, but we would make a hole in the wall, wouldn't we?

But this particular run was interesting because it had a number of occlusion moments. We had an occluded state and we had an occluded this and we had an occluded that. And after we'd do a certain exercise for a very short time, such as run a concept or run an idea on something or other, why, we would get occlusion. The thetan, although exteriorized very, very well, very certainly, nevertheless where he was would get occluded and then he'd get unoccluded.

Speaking of high pressure jets and things like that - you can actually take a jet of water and cut steel with it, and so forth. But it would cut the wall like the bamboo splinter that goes through the palm tree in a hurricane. You could - but it would make a hole in the palm tree. You see this now?

Now, what did that occlusion unocclude on? What did I tell you to do that unoccluded it every time?

We're taking a piece of the MEST universe - this magazine - and we are pushing it up against a piece of the MEST universe. So we are then accustomed to believe that that thing which is up against something is necessarily convinced that it is up against something. Just because something is convinced it is up against something, we are accustomed to believing that the thing is up against something.

Male voice: It was if something was done to me, it occluded and then one day... This is the frailty of asking a preclear what happened.

Now, this sounds like one of those horribly obvious points; just like Q and A. The way across - there's this tribe of Indians that had these phrases like "The way to cross the lake is to cross the lake," "The way to eat duck is to eat duck." They had all of these - these maxims by which they guided their way. Boy, they were really identified. "The answer to the problem is the answer to the problem." That's all. That's all it is.

Male voice: Yeah, that's right!

But let's take this again and now let's realize that we have this observation, this continual observation and thought in mind. We have this continually: that when we take a piece of something and push it up against a piece of something, the two are necessarily touching each other. And if we take the first something and shove it hard enough or fast enough at the second something, we get a hole in the second something and we get penetration and we get damage of some sort against this first something. Now you understand that. I mean I'm just laboring something that we see every day. We put our foot, our shoe, down on the ground. And if it were dirt, we would leave a footprint on the ground.

That's right. I'll just give another example here. Who happens to have some small degree of occlusion at the moment?

Now just - just see that very clearly because it is true only in terms of the MEST universe and is not true in terms of the thetan versus the MEST universe. He is - simply thinks he is this magazine impinged against this wall. The wall is of one order of magnitude and the magazine is the same order of magnitude, but if the magazine were a thetan, you've got a different order of energy. And the different order of energy, if you please, cannot make a hole in the wall with great ease simply by being thrust at the wall, but only becomes certain that it can.

Male voice: Small degree?

So we put a thetan in a quart can. Let's see this. We put a thetan in a quart can. He would think he could press against the edges of the quart can and assume the internal shape of the can. Well, he's a very clever fellow because he can only approximate the internal dimensions of the can. And he has to be awfully careful not to slop over because he would not be contained in the quart can - he would be a quart and a half See? Because he doesn't - with the energy he's packing around, at its order of magnitude with relationship to its spatial structure, and so forth - he doesn't approximate this can.

LRH: Bring your chair up here. Sit down.

But the occluded case has become certain - it's the only difference between, really, an occluded case and a wide-open one - the occluded case is quite certain that he has. The occluded case knows he cannot walk through doors. He knows this very well. And yet when he's audited, his main concern and his real worry is getting - getting wrong about the way he's approximating the body. And if he's really worried about anything it's because he's not approximating the body properly.

PC: Thank you.

You see, he is doing - he is doing a pervasion. That's all he's doing. But he's doing a perfect pervasion and a recognized pervasion. And he gets down Tone Scale to a point where he's afraid to realize that all he can do is approximate. So he tries to reconvince himself by approximating with great exactness.

LRH: You're welcome. Which is the easiest direction to look?

And your occluded case thinks he's more or less the shape of the body. And as you maul this character around and give him concepts and so forth, he's liable to assume the shape of some earlier body. He gets upset. And he's sure he's not doing this body. He's a little bit upset. But he knows he's doing a body and this is as close as he can come to it because he can't quite get to the end of his nose anymore.

PC: Straight ahead.

And if you really want to make this person happy without clearing him at all, just fix him up so that he'll be able to approximate the shape of his nose and the shape of his eyes and the shape of the back of his head and fill in all the blank spots in the body and he'd be very happy. That's why communication is so vital. He's approximating the same shape as the body. He isn't pervading it.

LRH: Straight ahead is the easiest direction to look. Is it black?

You've gone a step down, you see, on his ability. The wide, pardon, not the wide-open case, but the easily exteriorized case - the Step I case - pervades the body. He can pervade anything. He can pervade automobiles, light globes, the sun, anything. He can approximate any of these things and pervade them. He can approximate anything and he can pervade anything because he's not afraid to be there. See, he isn't quite that upset about being there.

PC: Yep.

Well if a person goes along for a while, they get that upset about being there so they're not pervading and they're afraid they're just approximating. And when they get a hollow spot in their nose and a hollow spot in the top of their head, they become very certain that all they're doing is approximating and they're no longer pervading. And they get sick and they get very sad because they know now they're a fake.

LRH: Okay. Start having somebody behind you throwing explosions at you. Quite a distance away - enormous distance away from you. Just get the idea of somebody throwing big explosions at you.

And the main trouble occluded cases have is this computation of pretense. And they're very afraid of being discovered in a state of pretense. They become extremely truthful. All the bad things that you can say about cases, the one thing that you can say rather uniformly about an occluded case is that it - he gets real upset with himself for lying. He's quite truthful.

Continue it. Watch the explosions - somebody throwing explosions at you. You doing that?

Whereas your wide-open case, which is the delusive level above that, which has gone out to the line where they know they can't even approximate - they're just a facsimile. They know this. Oh, they're just - they're one step out. They're very thin. They're not quite there. They can dub in anything. They're going to have to make a mock-up. They're going to have to make a mock-up at every turn because they're really getting unreal there, see? They can't pervade. They can't approximate. Now all they can do is make a mock-up and they'll say this mock-up is a memory. Fantastic that these cases respond. A wide-open case that you think very often is a very easy case - they say, "Got sonic and visio? Oh, yes, yes, yes." They're just doing a mock-up.

PC: I'm doing it but ...

So they get straightened up by next-to-the-last list in Self Analysis - "Can you remember something real?" and so forth. This case gets real delusive.

LRH: Okay.

Now, how do you know the case is delusive and how do you know the case is actually pervading? Well, you'd better look at the general structure of the being himself to get your first alertness to this. Because your wide-open case has endocrine difficulties of magnitude. If you want a single index: Somebody comes wobbling in to see you and stumbling in and androgen/estrogen failure, thyroid failure; the fatty tissue on the backs of the ankles is all shot to the devil; they got diabetes - any one of these various things which designates this. You can take that case and if that case says, "Oh yes, I've got sonic and I've got visio and I've got all these other beautiful things," and so on, you just don't happen to match. This character just doesn't match.

[to audience] Did you get the confidence in that voice? "I'm doing it but...

But you work this case for a little while, by the way, and they click through into an occlusion and then they click through into an ability to pervade. And when they can pervade, that's fine. They don't have to have any further upset about life at all. I mean, they can pervade.

PC: I was going to tell you something.

But you get them any distance away from - you get anybody any distance away from the body and he becomes unsure of himself He'll throw up a mock-up before he'll pervade something. He'll throw up a mock-up and pervade it rather than just pervading it.

LRH: Mm-mm.

So quite often you run Reach and Withdraw (that is, Contact or Step VII of SOP 8) on a Step I. If you are very explicit as to how he does it - which was done here yesterday, which I'm making a point out of - if you're very explicit as to how he must reach and withdraw and so forth, your thetan is liable to get uncertain and things are liable to be quite unreal to him because if you say he has to do so-and-so and he has to do so-and-so, that might not be - might not be his capability of operation at that point. So you tell him to reach and withdraw; well, he'll go over and sit on the wall and then move off the wall. That's good enough.

PC: That I have to keep putting them out there a long ways because if he gets closer - it's not that I care...

But if you tell him to put out a beam on the wall and do it this way and do it that way and he gets uncertain about what he's doing because he doesn't put - well, you've thrown him two imponderables. In the first place, he hasn't been drilled on how to handle beams, let's say, or he hasn't even really been drilled much on how to move around. And all of a sudden you're asking him to do this thing specifically and then do something else, which is contact.

LRH: Oh, well, we don't want them to get closer. Get them out there a ways. Not that you care.

I said in the lectures something that should have been modified: I said there was no interchange of energy. I should have said there is no gross interchange of energy between thetans. When we speak of energy, I was speaking of force energy. That's your physicist's definition of energy. There is an interchange of flow between the two and light energies.

PC: They're out about sixty miles, that way.

If two thetans were in wonderful condition, they could probably - probably throw blocks of energy to each other and be very happy about it. But they'd have to approximate each other's wavelength as far as the energy is concerned. Nothing can become more invisible, and more puzzlingly invisible, to something else than a thetan to another thetan. They'll shift their wavelength. They'll become invisible. And they'll shift their wavelengths and they'll become visible.

LRH: All right. Put them out there and keep - keep throwing those big explosions. Use atom bombs if you like, but get a lot of flash to them.

Well, a thetan has to be - he has to be, oh, in terrific shape. I mean, he's got to be an Operating Thetan plus, plus, plus, plus in order to shift his energy down far enough - this is just theoretical - shift his energy down far enough to get into solid matter. Now, he'd really have to shift wavelength down. He certainly would be - he'd have to be able to - ptew! - pull everything together.

PC: Yeah. Yes.

But get carefully here - carefully get this: that your thetan is approximating or pervading. And the difference between approximating and pervading is simply that he actually has - approximating - he simply has a sort of a mock-up of what he's supposed to be and then he pervades the mock-up. And in pervasion he simply directly pervades the MEST object.

LRH: Okay. Keep them blowing. Use up the Russian stock. Lots of them. Getting that?

Well, how does he pervade it? He pervades it by assuming its shape. And then, having assumed its shape, he can then assume its characteristics. And if it has a hard time pushing against walls, then he can assume that he's having a hard time pushing against walls. How neat. There's nothing to it - you see the thetan's pushing against the wall.

PC: Yeah. Mm-hm.

Now, I introduced a drill in the Doctorate Course whereby you went up to the wall and took your theta hands and put them against the wall. It was an effort to show people that they could shift down, but at the time I was overshooting the cases. Cases can't shift down that easily. And you take some guy in pretty good shape, just take his hands, you might say, out.

LRH: They still coming closer to you fast?

Now, the second that your thetan stops pervading, as soon as he stops pervading and starts putting a mock-up there and then approximating it - approximating the shape he'd like to pervade with a mock-up - then you start to get into errors. He starts to make errors. He's not in bad shape. And to hell with whether or not he's making errors; you're not worried about that.

PC: Well, the explosions are always close.

Most of the Step I's that you exteriorize will immediately go out and they'll make a mock-up of what they're looking at and then pervade the mockup. They won't take a look at what they're looking at and then pervade it. This is just chronic. This is just a chronic upset that he runs into because "Things are dangerous." And that's why you have to drill him an awful long time on Step I. And that's why you go all the rest of the Steps with a Step I.

LRH: Okay.

He gets to a point, finally, where if - see, if he can approximate a generator and then sit in the middle of the generator and then be fairly satisfied as to what he's doing, you wouldn't - you'd never explain to him what he's doing. He's doing a good job, really. He looked at the generator and then he approximated the generator and then he occupied the center of the approximation. Mock-up, see? But the mock-up was coincident to a large degree with the generator.

PC: And I was having - he'd keep getting closer if I didn't put him back out.

Now, a thetan is doing this higher on the Tone Scale in a very peculiar way. He'll not just approximate the generator, he will put another generator over the generator. Originally, on the track, this is how he occupied bodies. Boy, when a thetan occupied a body and just simply made a mock-up of the body while he was pervading the body, he would make it heavy enough, solid enough, so that he could then just move his mock-up and the body, being sort of like a fly in a trap, couldn't help but move. MEST couldn't help but move the second he moved. And this is simply a problem of energy.

LRH: Oh, I see.

Well, let's take the occluded case - making my point very sharp to you here - you just take the occluded case and the case which you run into normally that's in rather bad condition, and you take the magazine and you push it up against the wall. The magazine pushes against the wall. The thetan - Step V, Step IV - Step III, Step Il - he is more certain than certain that he is trapped one way or the other by walls. He's approximated a mockup. See, he's taken this mock-up - approximating a body, rather - and then he pervades this mock-up. And then he fits this mock-up in the body, and he's just having a picnic for himself . He's just all snarled up. And now you ask him all of a sudden to move out; he can't move out because a mock-up is his body. And he's very confused when you ask him to do this. But if the body gets sick, he has to come back to battery and stop his pretending, stop this feeling of pretense, and so on, and just move out and he feels real sad.

PC: It's all right.

But does he move out of anything? No, he doesn't move out of anything. He's all through, over, on and in. And a Step V is so thoroughly over, through, on and in that he's just a little bit frantic on one point, is: Can he keep lined up with this thing? He's got to keep lined up with it at all times, you see, to play the game right. And can he keep lined up? That's his anxiety.

LRH: Well, get him - get him blowing it up - blowing you up.

So he'll happily run any damn thing you ask him to run, and so forth. But don't start moving in to a point which moves his location in space in some other direction or manner than the body, because here's his anxiety. His anxiety is "Can I keep lined up with and approximating the mock-up which I have in the space of the body? Can I keep lined up with the mock-up I am pervading which approximates the body which I am occupying?" See, he's gone too many steps. He's too far removed from an easy assumption of a body. And he's afraid that if he got a little bit moved one way or the other, by God, he wouldn't be able to control that body; he just wouldn't be able to. His primary concern is just that: Can he control this body or can't he?

PC: Mm-hm. Blowing the body up?

Well now, he gets in bad shape when he finds out that he as a body cannot control somebody else as a body. And of course, he's doing silly things there. That's the silliest thing of all: trying to control with words. Trying to control with words and commands. Ah, boy, there the thetan digs his grave every time.

LRH: Blowing you up as a thetan.

There's only one method of control if you just have to control and that is force. And then there are devious ways and they're - all fall into the category of words. Because usually people who are anxious about control are also pulling another gag. They don't dare admire anything. Why don't they dare admire anything? They think if they admire something they'll melt this approximation, this mock-up, they've got. They're having a hell of a time for themselves. See, if they start to admire something they're liable to melt and then they'd get out of line with the body.

PC: Oh, okay.

Now, if you could think of a black-gauze webbing of some sort which was in the shape of a body which lined up - which had feet and hands and everything - you've got this webbing system. It's black gauze. And bodies are kind of scared of black gauze and they're easy to control.

LRH: Let's not dodge it. You just pretend the body - just pretend, now - that the body isn't here and that you as a thetan are sitting there.

Now, if you let this... Old friend Korzybski - great guy, Korzybski. I'm going to have to read something of his sometime. When you line up two spaces coincident here, you'll see exactly what the condition is with a thetan. Here's a body over here. It hasn't any thetan in it. Here's a body - just a guy. And now we put this black-gauze approximation of the body - now we move these two things into the same space. Well now, supposing we could just.

PC: Yeah.

If we shoved a little bit too hard, the black-gauze thing would just move on outside and appear on the other side of the body. If we went over there, see, and we gave it a little shove, it'd move three or four inches on the other side of the body. If we gave it a real hard shove, it just goes through. You can shove it up above, you can shove it down through and it would be a good magician's trick. A magician would be very pleased to have a trick like this where he could have a shadow that he could shove, for the edification of an audience, through and in front of, in back of a solid object. The shadow obviously has mass and the solid object obviously has mass. Well, the thetan gets into a terrific state of anxiety because all you have to do is give him a tiny little push and he'll just skid right on through.

LRH: And start getting these explosions heaved at you.

He's just got to start thinking all the time. When people wake up in the morning, by the way, they're seldom quite lined up. And they've lain there all night trying to keep the body from knowing that they were wide awake and so they've convinced themselves that they'd better go to sleep too. Their anxiety extends out to having to do everything the body does, you see? They have to approximate everything the body does. They make mock-ups of everything the body does. They guide themselves the same way as they do a body. This is nonsense because they don't even vaguely have to do this.

PC: Mm-hm.

You see, by doing all these things of identification, you've got a complete identification. And they think they have to have this complete identification to get sufficient solidity - not particularly bad this complete identification, see - get enough solidity to make the legs go and the head nod and the face move and so on, see? They think they have to have all this.

LRH: Lots of them. All right, now start in on two fellows back there - two fellows back there - and the other one is using up the US stock of atom bombs.

So, they go to the point of being unconscious when the body is being unconscious, being asleep when the body's asleep, and so on. Well, you start to bring somebody up Tone Scale and he'll find himself lying there all night thinking about something else. And then once in a while he'll have a game with himself. He'll have what people have been calling dreams. It's about as much of a dream as it is for you to uncross your legs. I mean, the thetan knows this very well. It's a joke. It's a real big joke he's playing - he's playing on himself.

PC: Mm-hm.

But his other methods of controlling the body are the methods which other people have used to control the body. Now, please, please get that. People have controlled this body with words and commands. He's seen, then, this darn body - he didn't take responsibility for all the things it did, of course; he couldn't - he's seen this body jump up and run and he's seen this body cower and he's seen this body say, "Yes, Mother," on a stimulus-response mechanism. This is wonderful. So he starts saying, "Jump up and run," and "Yes, Mother," and so on, and you get your genus of circuits. He's using this word method to control the body.

LRH: Russian stock and the - so on. Get them blowing - blowing... Lots of them.

Well, this word method to control the body is no good at all. It's just nonsense. People who start to control other people with words don't get very far unless they have controlled people physically. If they can control people physically fairly easily - that is to say, if they can control the body, you know, reach over and put your hands on a body and fix it in space or lift it up in the air... Toss a little baby around, by the way, if you want to come under - in final command of the baby's body. Not because you command the baby at all but because the baby as a thetan will realize that you can now control the body with words and so he'll start using words on the baby. He's perfectly willing to accept any method of control.

What's the matter?

Now, a case that's become occluded is afraid of relaxing any level or giving away any method of control because his anxiety is on the basis of control of a body. You can exteriorize many occluded cases simply by making them run a concept. Now, this sounds very strange. Try to get them to run the concept on themselves, not on the body. Because a lot of your auditing is just being thrown to the body by the thetan. See, you're auditing a thetan which is auditing a body. You're not auditing a thetan.

PC: Nothing.

You'd better look at a preclear. If a preclear isn't wobbling around very much and isn't floundering around and doesn't occasionally curl up in a ball and do other strange things, you're not auditing him. You are auditing the - you are auditing something that is auditing something else. A fellow who just sits there rather dispassionately, so on - he's scared to let you take anything away from him, so he just passes it on. And he's very happy about you a lot of the time because, you see, you're helping him out to get this body in shape so he can control it.

LRH: Nothing the matter? Let's get some big noisy ones. They getting better? Explosions about the same as they were?

Well, if you can run the concept on him "I can control this body from two feet behind it," or "I can control this body from the left shoulder," or "I can control this body from alongside of it," why - and, "I can't control this body."

Well, make them a little bit worse.

You'll start in "I can't control this body" on rising-scale postulates and just give him "I can't control this body from a distance. I can control this body from a distance," all of a sudden he'll say, "What do you know, I'm - why not." And he'll just give a shove. And he'll just be at a little distance and find out.

PC: Worse?

Now if he happens to run into MEST hard or he happens to get into another situation which makes him believe that things are very strange and peculiar and so on, he's liable to get scared.

LRH: Use some effort on them and make them a little worse.

Can you do that?

PC: Well, I'm putting more detail in them. Something like that.

LRH: Make them worse. Make your view of them worse.

PC: They don't seem any worse.

LRH: They don't seem any worse? Well then, make them better.

Put the concussion in them. Put just a...

PC: Yeah!

LRH: ... a tiny little concussion.

PC: Yeah, I already got some.

LRH: Yeah?

PC: Quite a bit.

LRH: All right. Just start increasing the concussion with each one. Put a tremendous enthusiasm to the bomb.

PC: I mean, it sort of admires itself when it blows up.

LRH: Yeah.

See if you can get them a bit bigger and a little further away now.

PC: Farther away?

LRH: Mm-hm. Bigger and further.

PC: Sure.

LRH: Get them - get them with a terrific grandeur of violence now, see.

Now get each one heaving you up in smoke and explosion.

What's the matter?

PC: Oh, I like it.

LRH: Huh?

PC: I like it!

LRH: Why, sure.

PC: I just sit up on top of it as it goes up and smile and...

LRH: Okay. Get lots of it now. Now get the US, Russian and Martian stock all going off.

PC: Yeah. That got away from me that time. I mean, I couldn't go as fast as it did.

LRH: Okay.

PC: I sat still, in other words.

LRH: Yeah.

PC: Quite a bit of activity in this here black field. I can tell you that.

LRH: No! All right. Let's - we're not interested in that black field.

PC: No! Oh, no, no. I just thought I would mention it.

LRH: We're not interested in a black field at all. Let's just keep them bombs going.

PC: Yes.

LRH: Get them bursting now with enthusiasm.

A real enthusiasm going on?

PC: The bombs?

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: Yeah uh...

LRH: The people throwing them with it; get them with enthusiasm too.

PC: Okay. Getting quite a big - an idea of quite a big flare and flash.

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: And all that.

LRH: All right, what are you getting now on your - your mock-up there?

PC: Well, I just had a bomb come in and break right behind me in a big white flash. A kind of greenish white.

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: All directions.

LRH: Mm-hm

PC: And then another one.

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: Doesn't go much beyond that point ...

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: ... about a big flare-up.

LRH: All right. Now let's reach for the two back corners of the room.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Just get interested in them.

All right. Now let's get a terrific number of these bombs coming in in front of you.

PC: Oh, that's easy.

LRH: Hm?

PC: That's easy. I could sit here and watch them all day.

LRH: Well, okay. Just see how much concussion there is in it.

PC: It seems like quite a time lag that I sort of sit here and look at it a long time after it happens before I go ahead and get another one.

LRH: Mm-hm. Start dropping them in there two at once.

Now start dropping them in there five at once.

PC: I just did.

LRH: Good.

PC: This just stinks of a continuous barrage of them.

LRH: Mm-hm. Getting any concussion wave?

PC: No, I have to remember to put that in all the time if I want it or l don't get it.

LRH: Mm-hm. Well, get very sharp concussion waves from it. When the bomb breaks have it - have the concussion waves going rat-a-tat on you.

Getting it better? Hm?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right, have somebody on the other side of the burst getting terrific concussion waves.

PC: That's easy.

LRH: Okay.

PC: That's easy.

LRH: All right, keep them coming in there and somebody else getting these terrific concussion waves.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Get him getting the sound of it too.

PC: Yeah, he didn't like it.

LRH: Hm?

PC: He didn't like it.

LRH: Oh, well...

PC: He didn't like it at all!

LRH: But you're forcing him to have the sound wave?

PC: I got it. Don't worry.

LRH: Okay. Now, put bursts on the other side of him.

PC: Oh, no, he don't like that at all. I can see that.

LRH: Getting him in back of it.

PC: Mm-hm. He'd like to be anywhere else. Yeah. Flame on him. He's just sitting there now, waiting for me to quit. And mad.

LRH: All right. Have him jump up and start dropping them in front of and in back of you.

What's happening there?

PC: Well, I have to work at it. I mean, I have to keep - keep quite a bit of attention to get the explosions we're working on.

LRH: Okay, get it dropping in front of and in back of you now and get the - get a rrrr from this guy doing it.

PC: Get what?

LRH: Get that real rage from this guy doing it.

PC: Yeah, he's mad but I don't care. The way I feel right now, he's going to be a lot madder before he ever gets anywhere with it.

LRH: I'm going to insist on you getting the sound now.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: What's happening?

PC: Oh, I guess I'm listening to some of the noise outside.

LRH: Noise outside?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Suddenly conscious of the noise outside?

PC: No, it's - there's a new one, it seems to me.

LRH: Mm-hm.

Now, as this is going on, get how depraved it is of you to enjoy it,

PC: I don't care.

LRH: Well, get how depraved the other guy thinks it is.

Okay, blow him up.

PC: Done.

LRH: Okay, let's reach for the two back corners of the room now.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Get interested in them. Now get interested in the nonexistence of those two corners.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Okay. Now let's open your eyes. How do you feel?

PC: Swell.

LRH: Feel good, huh? Okay, close your eyes and take a look at your black field. Same field?

PC: Yeah, it's not quite so black.

LRH: What's happened?

PC: Well, just before I took hold of the back corners, there was a lot of activity in it. Right now it's kind of quiet. It's quite black looking.

LRH: Is it as black as it was? Does it feel as heavy as it was?

PC: Mm. No, not quite.

LRH: Okay. Now let's get a tremendous number of explosions in front and back of you again, only this time let's get a guy out on the right side of you throwing them at you.

Now let's get him throwing a globe of explosions, that is to say, around a certain perimeter or distance from you.

PC: All around me?

LRH: Yeah, all around you, above and below.

PC: Individual explosions all around.

LRH: Yeah, but many at once...

PC: Yeah.

LRH: ... and quite repetitive.

PC: Hey, he thinks this is great.

LRH: Hm.

PC: He's a fiend.

LRH: A fiend? Okay.

PC: How far out do you want them?

LRH: Well, how far out are they?

PC: Well, I've got them about - to make a pretty good-sized globe. I've got them out about - it's about a three-hundred-foot globe.

LRH: Well, good.

PC: And they're on the edges of it.

LRH: Well, get a fellow way over on the left side of you...

PC: Yeah.

LRH: ... complementing the globe, throwing even more into it. Put one on the right and one on the left now.

PC: Both of them working on it.

LRH: Yeah. And get them insisting that you watch each explosion.

PC: Well, I'm more interested in this joker.

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: It seems like this bird over here doesn't want to really do anything. He's kind of lazy.

LRH: Okay. How's it going now?

PC: Oh, okay. But it keeps me busy getting all these explosions going.

LRR: All right. Have a bunch of them now suddenly concentrate on a spot about three miles back of your head. Get the air back there well exploded.

PC: Sir?

LRH: Get the air back there well exploded.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now be in the middle of it.

PC: I was, but I'm not.

LRH: Oh yeah? Well, get the air between you and it badly exploded - terrifically exploded.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now be about three miles back of your head again.

PC: Maybe.

LRH: All right. Try not to be three miles back of your head.

PC: Okay.

LRH: Are you there?

PC: Sir?

LRH: You there? What's happening?

PC: I'm. sitting here.

LRH: Well, did you move out and go in again or how?

PC: Well, I didn't move out and there's nothing on trying not to be. But I kind of bounced once or twice the other way.

LRH: Which way? Out?

PC: No, when you just said, "Be three miles back there," I just kind of bounced out and back real quicklike.

LRH: Mm-hm. All right. Be about a thousand miles back of your head, straight out into space.

What happened?

PC: Sir?

LRH: What happened?

PC: Soon as I - as soon as you said that I took a kind of pull around here and it made me laugh, that's all.

LRH: Okay. Well, now, let's get these boys going to work on you again - going to work on you real good - and just blowing the living daylights out of your body.

PC: Well, it don't last long.

LRH: Well, keep mocking up bodies out about three miles out in front of you now and get these boys blowing them up with enthusiasm.

Keep mocking them up and keep them blowing them up on you. This will be a contest who can mock up - if you can mock up the bodies faster than they can blow them up.

Got it? How's it going? How's it going?

PC: Fine. I mean, they're having a great picnic out there.

LRH: Okay.

PC: I mock them up sitting in a chair. Is that what you want?

LRH: Hm?

PC: Do you want them mocked up sitting in a chair?

LRH: Yeah, put them mocked up sitting in a chair out there. Get them blowing it up.

PC: Yeah, the chair...

LRH: As fast as they blow it up, you put an occluded sphere around the head of the mock-up.

Now, hide it.

PC: Sir?

LRH: Put a - keep putting an occluded sphere around the head of the mock-up.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Get it blown up next time. Got it?

PC: Yeah, I uh...

LRH: What happened?

PC: I almost shook loose once.

LRH: Oh, you're worrying about shaking loose?

PC: Don't know whether I'm worried about it.

LRH: Well, don't worry about shaking loose. We want you trapped. We don't want you free.

PC: Thanks!

LRH: You're too dangerous.

PC: Thanks, thanks. Yeah.

LRH: You're too dangerous.

PC: Thanks.

LRH: Now, let's keep putting those bodies out there on a chair.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Keep blowing them up. What's the matter?

PC: Well, every time there is any motion around this body, it makes me laugh.

LRH: Mm-hm. You getting any flashes with those explosions?

PC: No.

LRH: What are they like?

PC: I could.

LRH: All right, let's get the flash there. You been running all these explosions without the flash?

PC: Oh, not all of them. But I've kind of been forgetting about the flash there for quite a while. But I could try. I could get it.

LRH: Now let's get those flashes there. Let's get the big flash as the body goes up. Have your body there and have it blow up with a big flash.

Doing that?

PC: Yeah, I'm doing them pretty good.

LRH: Real good. Okay, let's contact the two back corners of the room.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: And just for variation, let's contact Union Station in Chicago as one corner and the Empire State Building as the other corner.

What happens as you do that?

PC: Well, I'm not sure where I am for just an instant. And then I know.

LRH: Where are you?

PC: Right here.

LRH: Is that so. All right. Pull the Empire State Building under you.

Now pull the Union Station under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now put the Empire State Building back.

Let's put Union Station back.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Blow them both up.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Okay, move Montreal under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Move it back.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Move Phoenix under you.

PC: Okay.

LRH: Move it back.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Move Mexico City under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Move it back.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Let's move Earth under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Move it back.

PC: Hm. Where to?

LRH: Aha. Have it explode.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Have Mexico City explode.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Have Phoenix explode.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right. Have San - move San Francisco under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Have it explode.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Move it back.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Move the sun under you.

PC: Okay.

LRH: Stop it exploding.

PC: All right.

LRH: All right. Start it exploding again.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Okay. Now, move Paris under you.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Move it back.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Move Earth under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right. And after Earth, move a road under you.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Make the road explode.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Put an explosion all over the road.

PC: Sir?

LRH: Get the whole road exploding.

PC: Both ways?

LRH: Yeah.

PC: Okay.

LRH: Get the flash of it.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Okay, now just put flashes way down below you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Put flashes above you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: On the right side of you.

PC: Mm-hm. Do you want to keep them all going?

LRH: Mm-hm. Left side of you. Get yourself engulfed now in flashes.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Okay. Now, let's take hold of the two back corners of the room.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right. Let's be interested in those for a couple of minutes.

PC: They seem like quite a ways away.

LRH: They do? In which direction are they further away?

PC: In back.

LRH: Hm?

PC: In back.

LRH: Okay. Okay.

PC: I'm here.

LRH: Now out in front of you, blow up a whole flock of babies, one after the other, with a flash.

What do you have?

PC: Motion around me.

LRH: Okay. Keep babies blowing up.

Now, let's get parents blowing you up because you've blown up babies, with a flash.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Get the babies getting up now and blowing you up with flashes.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Get everybody ringing you around now and blowing you up with flashes.

Got that?

PC: Yeah!

LRH: Okay. Now let's reach the two front corners of the room.

PC: Got them.

LRH: Let's withdraw from them.

PC: Draw from them?

LRH: Withdraw from them.

PC: Hm. Mm-hm.

LRH: Now let's have a radio set out in front of you and blow it up. As fast as it blows up - make sure it blows up with a flash - put another radio set there and have it blow up with a flash.

Got that?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Some little distance from your face now, just start striking matches and watching the flash and get sonic on the explosion of the match as it ignites.

PC: How far out?

LRH: It doesn't matter. Why?

PC: Well, I was just wondering how far you want them. I can get them right here and right out there.

LRH: Okay. Now strike a match and stick it in your right eye while it's still burning.

PC: Mm-hm. It didn't quite make it. It got out before it got in there.

LRH: All right. Let's strike another one and stick it while it's still burning.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Strike another one.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Another one.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Each time, why, try to thrust it in the eye.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right. Now let's start striking big kitchen matches and stuffing them into the center of your head while they're still burning.

PC: They're all burning now.

LRH: Okay.

PC: They're on fire.

LRH: Oh, they're all burning now?

PC: A campfire.

LRH: Good. Stick a whole box of them in the center of the head and touch the box off.

PC: Mm-hm. That's quite a flash.

LRH: Good fire?

PC: Pretty good.

LRH: Mm-hm. Okay, throw them all away.

PC: Uh-I hate to tell you this but ...

LRH: But what?

PC: I used to catch a pretty bad time when I was a kid for playing with matches.

LRH: Yeah, yeah.

PC: Okay, I threw them all away

LRH: All right, let's shove a huge box of kitchen matches into your mouth.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: They're not lit now. Now strike one corner of this huge matchbox and have it all explode in your mouth.

PC: I had to do it twice. I forgot to put the flash in the first time.

LRH: Okay, let's stick another box in.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Have it flash.

PC: Yeah, I get the sniff of it.

LRH: Yeah? All right. Let's get some more boxes of kitchen matches and start stuffing them in your stomach and body.

PC: Mm-hm. Light them up?

LRH: Yeah, light them up now.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Okay. Now have way out in front of you out here - way out in front of you out there - mock up your body as it's sitting in a chair and look at it.

PC: Yes, sir.

LRH: Mock up the rest of the room.

PC: Mm-hm..

LRH: Okay, mock up the outside wall.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Got that?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Mock up the window and tree and the building across the street. All right, let's be three miles back of your head.

What happened?

PC: Well, sir the first thing, I didn't reach the three feet - three miles back of my head. I'd think where my head was and then be three miles back of that, or try to, and I wind up here.

LRH: Oh, is that what's troubling you. Well, just mock up your body and blow its head off with a flash.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Mock up your body again and blow its head off with another flash.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Blow its head off with another flash.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: And another one.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Now get the suet and grease, and so forth, from the fat in the head.

PC: Who's a fathead?

LRH: ... running down the shoulders after the explosion. Huh?

PC: Okay Okay.

LRH: Now put the odor of singed flesh in there after each explosion.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Real good?

PC: Hm?

LRH: That real, real good?

PC: The odor?

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: No, I just sort of mocked it up.

LRH: Okay. Take now the body as a whole...

PC: With a head, huh?

LRH: Without a head.

PC: Okay.

LRH: And bury it.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Mock up another body and blow its head off with a flash and bury it.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Okay, have your body blow you up as a thetan and bury you.

PC: A tricky body, huh?

LRH: Mm.

PC: Okay.

LRH: Again, have your body blow you up as a thetan and bury you in another grave.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Have your body blow you up again as a thetan and put you yet in another grave.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, make - make the tombstones, and so forth, very artistic.

PC: Oh, you want a tombstone?

LRH: Mm.

PC: Well, let's see. Well, all right, they're artistic.

LRH: Got it?

PC: Yeah, I reckon.

LRH: What's the matter?

PC: What's artistic about a tombstone?

LRH: Oh, have flowers growing all over the grave and nightingales singing sadly.

Now have the body blow the thetan up again.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Now, have the body throw the thetan now into a pauper's grave.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Okay, take two minutes of nothing.

Okay. Now find the two back corners of the room.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Open your eyes.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Now, get the feeling out in front of you that you're keeping preclears from being reached by noise and flashes. Have another preclear - keep him from being reached.

Another preclear. Another one. Another preclear.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now have people wasting preclears - people that could have been audited but weren't. Namely you.

PC: Me wasting them too?

LRH: No, get people wasting you. They could have audited you and they didn't. They're getting your body and throwing it away. They could have audited, and so forth.

Now get you wasting preclears - people you could have audited. Get their bodies and instead of auditing them, throwing them away.

Now, put an unsolved preclear out in front of you.

PC: A mock-up?

LRH: Yeah.

PC: Okay

LRH: And put an unsolved preclear on as the answer.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: An unsolved preclear out in front of you again. Unsolved preclear on you as the answer.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Unsolved preclear again in front of you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Put him on as the answer.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now blow those mock-ups up, each one with a flash.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right? Grab the two back corners of the room. Got them?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Okay. Look at me.

PC: Hm?

LRH: Look at me.

PC: Okay

LRH: And uh ...

PC: With the eyes open or closed?

LRH: Eyes open. How are you?

PC: Fine. How are you?

LRH: Fine.

PC: Good.

LRH: Good. All right, now let's take a look at the field around you.

PC: Well, there's a lot of - I expect it's eyes. I mean, that light over there leaves an after-image a little bit. And then there's black and got a little motion over here.

LRH: Mm-hm. All right. Let's put a mock-up out there of a rabbit.

PC: A rabbit. Which side? Out in front?

LRH: Doesn't matter.

PC: Okay.

LRH: How far out is he?

PC: About five or six feet.

LRH: Five or six feet. Now have him eating a green carrot.

PC: A green carrot. Yes, sir.

LRH: Got that? Now get the sound as he bites down on it.

PC: Well, I can get an idea of it.

LRH: Well, have him explode each time he makes the sound.

Make it easier to hear?

PC: Well, I know what it sounds like. Let's put it that way.

LRH: Well, is he - is it easier to hear now that you're making him explode after he does it?

PC: No.

LRH: It isn't easier to hear?

PC: Uh-uh.

LRH: All right. Now, let's take a look at me again. Well, would you say your field has altered any?

PC: Alternating?

LRH: Altered any?

PC: Oh, yeah, it alters while you're - while I'm running.

LRH: It does, always, when you're running it?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Does it alter the same way as it did this time?

PC: Mostly.

LRH: It does each time, huh?

PC: It's - sometimes during one run - sometimes there'll be circles that'll get bigger or smaller. Sometimes they'll be green, sort of greenish.

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: ...blobs of blue cross over and come up this way and go down that way. They sort of slide around easy like.

LRH: Mm-hm. And now as you look out, what do you have?

PC: Well, I've got a kind of a purplish spot out there somewhere.

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: It's gone now. Varying degrees of blackness.

LRH: Is - is the field still black now?

PC: No, it's - it's bluish black, purplish black.

LRH: Oh, the field is purplish black. Well, mock up Mars.

PC: All right.

LRH: Blow it up with a flash.

PC: Okay.

LRH: Mock up Mars again.

Blow it up with a flash.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Mock up Mars again.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Blow it up with a flash.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Once more. And blow it up with a flash.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Once more.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Have it blow you up with a flash now.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Have it blow you up with another flash.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Have it blow you as a thetan up with another flash.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Have it do it again.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Okay. Now, let's reach out and grab the two front anchor points of the room.

PC: All right.

LRH: All right, let's open your eyes now. Now take a look at your field.

PC: All right. See, it's closing my eyes is all this after-image from that light over there.

LRH: Mm-hm. Oh, that light over there. Well, just have the light blow up.

PC: Okay

LRH: Okay, now let's take a look at the field. How is your field? Improved? Worsened? How?

PC: Hm. It's not any worse.

LRH: Well. No worse than it was?

PC: No. Right now it's kind of gray.

LRH: Gray. Drifting from gray to black. Is there a consistent and continual change there?

PC: Yep.

LRH: All right. Are we running into that?

PC: Sir?

LRH: Are we running into that?

PC: It's not a consistent, but there's always change.

LRH: Ah, always change. Now, how about getting this huge mob of people out in front of you.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: And get them looking up and admiring the way you study geography.

PC: You want them below, huh?

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: Okay.

LRH: Yeah, I want them to be studious, you know.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Now have the geography in your lap.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Have it explode.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Put another geography in your lap and have it explode with a flash.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now get how very nice it is - this book in front of you - feeling very fond of itself for moving your mind all over existence.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Get this book admiring you very much there in front of you.

PC: Admiring me?

LRH: Yeah, for having your mind shifted as you sit still.

PC: Okay.

LRH: Okay, have it admire your mind now very much for moving around as it tells you to.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, have this big mob of people down below you admiring you for letting your mind be moved all around by a printed page.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Get how happy this makes everybody. Get how happy it makes your parents.

PC: Okay, it makes them happy.

LRH: Okay, get this mob of women down below you admiring you for being able to read.

Get them admiring a fellow by the name of Johnny Jones for being able to read.

PC: Mm-km.

LRH: Do you like that?

PC: It's all right.

LRH: It's okay? All right, get them admiring you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Okay, let's put all the mock-ups we've been using into last week.

PC: Yep.

LRH: Let's take a look at the field around you now. Do you have the same rate of change?

PC: Hm. No, it's not changing much right now.

LRH: Hm?

PC: It's not changing much right now.

LRH: Not changing very much right now. Well, have this tremendous mob of women behind you admiring you for changing your geographical location all the time now.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now get a huge mob of you looking at Papa - looking up at Papa admiring him for moving too.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Get another mob of people looking up at Mama and admiring her for never liking where she is.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: You got that?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Now, get a whole huge stadium full of people cheering you for being a member of your own family and being just like the family.

PC: Okay.

LRH: Did the seats empty? Now...

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right. Now let's put all the mock-ups you've been using in Tuesday.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Take a look at the field. Is it changing as much?

PC: Well, it's different again.

LRH: Hm?

PC: It's different again.

LRH: It's different again. Well, all right. But is it doing the flick, flick, flick?

PC: No, it's got a - let me see how this is. There's two lights go like this.

LRH: Two what?

PC: Two kind of lights.

LRH: Have them both explode.

PC: Hm. They're still there.

LRH: Put two more explosions there where they are. Have them there and have two explosions there too.

Got that?

PC: No, I get it from time to time.

LRH: All right, just keep putting explosions there.

Got it?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now have somebody else making you explode by putting explosions and the flash there.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: How is that?

PC: Well, they're really sailing now.

LRH: Hm?

PC: Seems like they're really sailing now.

LRH: Really sailing. Have you had this before?

PC: A similar thing to it; not quite like this.

LRH: Just different, huh?

PC: Just different.

LRH: Okay. Now, let's get this whole big mob of people down below admiring another preclear for being so terribly difficult.

PC: Okey-doke.

LRH: Now, let's get a mob of you admiring a mob of preclears for being difficult.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now let's get another mob.

PC: Another mob of me?

LRH: Mm-hm. Now let's get a mob of you and Haskell...

PC: Ha-ha.

LRH: ... a mob of you and Haskell admiring the gentleman from New Orleans as a...

PC: I got it! I got it!

LRH: You got that? Well, get you admiring him.

Now get a mob of him admiring you for having been cleared by you.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Now get him walking off into the sunset, completely cleared.

PC: Beautiful ending.

LRH: Yeah. Now get all of your pre clears walking off into the sunset, beautifully cleared. Get them all cleared on Book One.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Get them all cleared on Science of Survival.